Will Our Conversion Rate Ruin Your Affiliate Program – II
Posted under: Back in January I blogged will our conversion rate ruin your affiliate program. The reason behind that blog was that a retailer, Thorntons, were concerned that our clicks to sales rate was an issue. The reason for that issue was because we can drive a large amount of competition traffic, and at the time Thorntons were running competitions.
Guess what?
Yes, Thorntons have now kicked us off their affiliate program and gave us 48 hours to remove their links.
After careful consideration, we have decided to discontinue our relationship with you as our analysis shows that your conversion rate is significantly lower than most affiliates on the programme. Although we greatly appreciate your efforts in promoting us, we see no value in continuing this relationship at this time.
Now I guess that’s their perogative but let’s just examine this so called relationship!
1. Are we causing Thorntons any work?
No! We’ve never once asked a Thorntons affiliate manager, network or otherwise, to do anything for us that would take up a large amount of their time.
2. Are we costing Thorntons any money?
No! Not unless they’re having to pay Affiliate Window for every click we send. We also “cost” them the time they’ve taken to email us generic offers and also to ask why we send them so many clicks. Hmmm, not a big cost now is it?
3. Are Thorntons getting anything from us?
Yes! They’re getting free promotion and visitors to their site. They’re also picking up users for their mailing lists. Oh yes, they don’t pay for those sign ups and they still have an awful “thanks for entering” page.
4. Do we get anything from this?
Not really! Some sites we send competition traffic to get us sales, some don’t. Thorntons rarely converted, even on gift and chocolate related elements. The only time it really did well for us was on one of those “spend £20 get a box of chocs free offer”. We did get several emails asking us “what are we doing” so that’s a bonus.
5. Did it cost us much time?
No. Our only “cost” is the time it takes to add the fact that Thorntons have a competition into our database. We may, because it’s an affiliate link, include it in our newsletter too. So more free exposure!
So the question is this – why kick us off the program? Is it really costing Thorntons much time or is something slightly more sinister?
Yes, it’d be nice if we were doing sales, but the only reason behind this is that our click/conversion is upsetting someone’s stats. We’re not taking up anyone’s time, we’re not doing anything wrong, we’re the one’s giving Thorntons exposure and not being paid for it.
Thorntons could have looked at their competition mechanisms, let us get on without taking up any of their time, paid us for leads or simply just said “hey, don’t use an affiliate link to link to our competition please”.
Kicking off affiliates because to make your stats look pretty. Done!
You would also think that they would love to use this data and identify ways to improve conversions within their site !!
I wonder how many people that found their way there through your site,signed up for newsletters and then bought a gift based on an email shot !!
I can’t say with any certainty but from what I see Thornton’s seem like a forward thinking brand, I am pretty sure you haven’t been kicked off to ensure someone’s stats look good. It looks like they have analysed your traffic and decided it’s not “quality” traffic. Affiliates need to see it from a merchants point of view sometimes, they want sales, new customers, their brand to be represented in a good way on-line, they don’t want a truck load of traffic that doesn’t convert. It’s nothing to do with their stats looking pretty. Affiliates need to understand there isn’t a conspiracy against them.
It not a volume game, it’s a quality game and affiliates need to be prepared for more merchants to analyse the traffic that is being sent. We have already seen this within the voucher code and cashback genre.
Quality is the order of the day!
Thanks for the comment Daniel.
Sorry, but I do try and see things from a merchant point of view. But, in this case based on the conversations I’ve had with Thorntons, my summation is that this is purely a stats decision.
E.g. in January we were told “I’m sure you can appreciate that having such a high click through rate and low conversion rate isn’t great for the overall programme”.
So sorry… I’m going for conspiracy on this one.
To add to that I was contacted by Awin’s AM on 17th May asking about our stats, what we do etc. On the 19th we were given 48hrs by Thorntons direct.
If kicking off an affiliate is forward thinking, I’m not impressed. Here’s forward thinking “could you stop using the affiliate link on competition traffic” or “how can we improve our competition page” (and we did make suggestions). Forward thinking is talking with us, but I don’t think you guys ever have so perhaps that’s why you make your conclusion?
Now, I can appreciate that our traffic isn’t the greatest. In fact I’ve described it myself on this blog I think as cracking a walnut with a sledge hammer type affiliate marketing. It’s not subtle and it’s not finesse, but it works and we’re constantly trying to do better. To add to that networks, merchants and agencies tell us about their consumer competitions all the time, so somewhere along the line people are happy with what we do or can figure out what we’re doing.
On top of that we have offers, a community, voucher codes and even an xmastime/eastertime site ideal for Thorntons – all now removed. Is that forward thinking? No it’s not.
Of course it’d be nice if the bulk of the traffic yielded better results – but who actually is suffering here…. well no one other than us because we’re the one’s being paid on performance.
If you can explain to me what actually we’re “costing” the merchant then cool. We don’t misrepresent them (we’re not actually doing anything wrong), we push their offers if we can and we’re pretty good when it comes to competitions. We just happen to have a lot of traffic that’s a bit of a bugger to monetise.
I appreciate your view but there’s perhaps more to this and how we work than what you see or want to see.
Just for the record… here’s that walnut quote http://www.onelittleduck.co.uk/uncategorized/broadbanned-2-the-wrong-kind-of-snow-155.htm
Ironically on a similar subject with the same theme… merchants not quite understanding what it is we actually do.
Hi Jason
I don’t pretend to know much about the specifics of this situation but I do know the merchant wanted to chat with you on the phone to explain the decision or maybe even come to a new arrangement but you refused to speak to her.
Surely the best people to answer the questions you’ve posed in this blog would be Thorntons themselves?
Adam
Hi Adam
Yes Thorntons would have been the best people… but I answered all their emails about our activity honestly and then still got kicked off without further discussion.
Not once did they suggest phoning beforehand. Imo that’d have been the better approach rather than the 48hr goodbye email or after this blog post/emails this morning.
Perhaps I should have agreed to the call, but I explained my reasoning for not doing so in my reply. In my personal opinion it was the right decision for all concerned. Perhaps next week, when things have settled, it may be more appropriate.
Thanks for the comment.
Jason
The most poignant question is ‘did the affiliate get anything from this?’ and without driving sales or earning commission Thorntons were struggling to see the benefits for the affiliate on this programme.
Contrary to comments it’s not just about driving sales; it’s about delivering something that works for both parties.
Adam’s correct, you were approached this morning and haven’t as yet been removed from the programme as we are willing to discuss ways in which we can work together. Clearly it seems that this is no longer an option. If your position changes please feel free to get in contact with our affiliate manager.
Thorntons, thanks for the comment.
Ok “did the affiliate get anything from this?” – surely that’s our concern? It’s not like we’re hammering down your door asking for payments or “do this” or “do that”. We’re fully aware of what we do and what it does and doesn’t entail.
We don’t ask time of any network, agency or merchant – so if we’re happy why can’t you just let us be? If we were impeding on your time then I’d understand, but we’re not. We don’t do anything unethical or do anything that misrepresents Thorntons. What we do do is give you free promotion and generate interest in your competitions.
You might struggle to see the benefits, we didn’t as we’ve been doing this for a few years now (10+) and so know what we do and how we do it quite well. Just because you don’t “get it” isn’t our problem.
As for contacting us… you emailed me this afternoon asking for my contact details. I clearly explained my position and said I didn’t feel in the right frame of mind to take your call. I don’t see why that’s a problem?
It’s great you’re willing to discuss ways now, but I thought that’s what we’d been doing in January and this month. It was you who sent the email giving us notice.
The 48hr notice we were given was pretty indicative of a merchant not wanting to work with us – and we haven’t shut the door, contrary to what you say.
Regards
Jason
Great, in that case I suggest you have a chat with our affiliate manager on Monday. Whilst I appreciate that you didn’t want to discuss the email with us directly I hope you can understand why we’ve chosen to step into a conversation here given that you’re giving us every opportunity for an open dialogue.
Thorntons, your comments and involvement in the discussion are appreciated.
The fact that you brought up “what’s in it for the affiliate” is also quite interesting and is worth mulling over, perhaps even more so combined with Daniel’s quality is the order of the day.
That to me suggests that sites like our own, which don’t have conversion finesse but do do sales and are asked to promote consumer competitions regularly because we can do traffic, would ultimately be disallowed as an affiliate.
Now you can probably understand why that kind of “forward thinking” concerns me a little.
Yet there is no validity to that (if it happened) other than if we were actually costing someone time/money…. and as far as I know we don’t. We just get on and do what we do. Conversion rate isn’t a worry for us either.
I appreciate that makes us a tad odd in the affiliate mix though.
Jason
We should look inwardly at our affiliate account structure and agree should handle communications with affiliates such as yourselves probably in a slightly different way. If we understand your motivations then we can help maximise coverage/returns or whatever the objective is for both of us. We’ll have a chat with the network on Monday about how best to do this. You’ve made some valid points so let’s see what we can do to address them and turn this around.
putting my Childen’s Room hat on here, Jason. We were concerned that one affiliate was sending us tons and tons of traffic, but their conversion was particularly low – which, because of the volume, made our overhaul conversion rate look pants – far lower than other merchants.
Putting my Allkids hat on now – I’m looking to promote a new programme and see a very low conversion rate and think twice about promoting it, and then decide to go with another merchant in that sector.
Sometimes difficult being multi-talented
Thanks Elaine. It’s an interesting comment which makes me conclude that relying on a generic conversion rate as a stat is no good.
Perhaps it’s time for more indepth CR data to be provided by networks (e.g. CR for cashback, CR for vouchers) etc – and a proper statistical breakdown so that when outliers (like ourselves) come along and mess up things – we’re seen as an anomaly and don’t effect another affiliate’s decision making (rather than being hoyed off the program).
Wonder what kind of information CR breakdown data would yield in terms of the overall affiliate marketing picture and helping affiliates make more informed choices about who they work with?
Anyway, what did you do with the affiliate who sent you tons of traffic? Did you kick them off as they weren’t sending quality? Or were they taking up a lot of your time?
Jason
I can see the Merchant’s point about stats – but I think Jason is right that these stats need to be explained /broken down more and not taken at face value. A much better way of getting around the problem.
I used to work in PR and it’s all about subtlety raising brand awareness… you notice something in a shop more because you’ve seen it in a magazine, maybe without really realising. Therefore, free promotion on a competition site like Loquax is great!
I’m sure the PR/standard marketing side of Thorntons would have loved the coverage. If a site were sending so many visitors it caused problems (hosting etc.) then that’d be different, but to cause problems in a relationship that could be beneficial for both parties (Christmas etc.) seems like a real shame if it is just a case of figures on AWIN’s dashboard.
Thanks for the comment Lisa.
Most certainly PR, site management and affiliate management don’t engage together on a lot of websites. E.g. we’ve tried to join a merchant who has a consumer competition, they’ve rejected us – and then days later they’re trying (probably via PR or another channel) to get their promotion listed on our free service.
Another is merchants who do Facebook comps. They’re happy to use us for promotion (and we’re happy to do it as that’s what we do), but try and get a response about at least giving us an opportunity to monetise the relationship via affiliates – we get nowhere.
If a brand was getting free traffic/branding from Google or perhaps a better example moneysavingexpert, I seriously doubt someone would be looking to end that relationship.
It’s funny everyone is talking about a low conversion rate being the be all and end all.
I’m a full time affiliate and I don’t use that stat much at all. I analyse the merchant’s website and see if it will convert for my traffic. I have a pretty good eye for what works and sometimes the conversion rate is supposed to pretty poor but isn’t for me.
I’m sure I’m not alone and your valuable affiliates will look at the site itself and not so much at the conversion rate.
Jason, If you draw so much traffic, I don’t know why they don’t do special competitions for Loquax users every so often? After all they must have in house web people and they need something to do, right?
Mate, don’t waste any more of your time with Thorntons. If you haven’t already been kicked off then terminate the relationship yourself and work with a retailer who wants to work with you. There are more of them than there are decent affiliates like yourself with high traffic sites and large communities, Thorntons loss can be somebody elses gain.
I find Thorntons attitude in their posts above and their actions very arrogant. So dump them before you’re dumped.